Securing the Future part 1

We all pursue  education is a path to a job or career that can put food on our tables and a roof over our heads. Others see education as a way to make a positive difference in the world which adds to our collective security. Post-carceral life is fraught with insecurity. Without any education, rates of recidivism hover around 70-85%. Education and a meaningful career can reduce those odds significantly. Beth Dodd is a graduate of Santa Fe College and is currently pursuing her bachelor’s degree online. She currently works for a local engineering firm, and while her ambitions for a steady paycheck with benefits may seem modest to some, but as you listen to her story, I think you’ll agree that there’s nothing modest about what she’s been able to accomplish with her education and the support of some key allies. 

Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Full transcripts can be found under each episode at https://freetolearn.buzzsprout.com/. 

Transcript

Jason:

Welcome to Free to Learn, a podcast exploring the stories of formerly incarcerated college students. We all pursue education, whether formally or informally, to acquire a little more security. For some, education is a path to a job or career that can put food on our tables and a roof over our heads. Others see education as a way to make a positive difference in the world, which adds to our collective security. Post carceral life is fraught within insecurity. Without any education, rates of recidivism hover around 70 to 85%. Education and a meaningful career can reduce those odds significantly. Beth Dodd is a graduate of Santa Fe College and is currently pursuing her bachelor's degree online. She currently works for a local engineering firm. And while her ambitions for a steady paycheck with benefits may seem modest to some, as you listen to her story, I think you'll agree that there's nothing modest about what she's been able to accomplish with her education and the support of some key allies.

My name is Jason Frank. I'm an instructional designer at Santa Fe College, and I'm interested in better understanding how we can create a learning environment that better meets the needs of these students. The first step to good design is listening to the people you're working to support. So let's hear what Beth has to say.

Beth, if you could introduce yourself for our listening audience.

Beth:

Hello, my name is Beth Dodd. I mean, do you want my life story? What are we looking for here?

Jason:

Again, if you're meeting somebody at a party, what do you tell them about yourself?

Beth:

I've been here in Gainesville for maybe nine years. I'm originally from Indiana, although I wasn't born there. Most of my family lives there in Michigan. I work downtown at Kimley-Horn. I went to Santa Fe when I first came to Gainesville, graduated with my AA and changed directions and started working on an engineering degree instead of the business administration degree that I started with. I've just been moving forward, slowly trucking.

Jason:

So right now, where are you going to school right now?

Beth:

Daytona State College.

Jason:

Okay. How long have you been there?

Beth:

I think this might be my fourth semester. It's been a few semesters, not a long time, but I think this is maybe my fourth.

Jason:

And you're doing that all online?

Beth:

Yes. Yes. It is so nice to have an online option. That was the number one reason I picked that class, is because the entire bachelor's degree is online. The labs, everything's available online.

Jason:

Did you apply to any other schools or was that the only...

Beth:

Engineering technology is surprisingly hard to find, so that was the only school I could find that offered online engineering technology. I did look at UF's civil engineering program, but their classes are in person and they're crazy expensive. I would've had to take time off of work to go to these in-person classes. I've done that before. When I was taking my prerequisites, I actually worked out in Alan... I'm sorry, in Alachua, and I worked right across the street from the Perry Center, I think it's called. So I would leave work, go to class, and then come back to work. It was just crazy. Online is the way to go for me.

Jason:

Tell me about your major. What is the major, and what drew you to the major?

Beth:

Engineering technology is... I mean, honestly, it's kind of a step down from the civil engineering bachelor's program, but with the way that Florida licensure is set up, you can still get your professional engineer license with an engineering technology degree, but it takes two years longer. So if I had gone to UF and gotten a civil engineering degree, I would have to work as an engineer for four years, and then I would be eligible to become a professional engineer. With the engineering technology degree, it's six years. So it's not too big of a difference. The classes I think are probably a little bit easier and application based instead of theory based. But it seems like each semester the classes have an introduce yourself section, and most of the people in this degree program are working people who are already in engineering and just want to get their PE license at some point.

Jason:

What are you hoping to do with that?

Beth:

Work as an engineer. I work in an engineering firm as a CAD designer, so I'm drawing the plans, but I am not qualified to actually sign them or to do the design. Well, I mean, we do the design, but it's not official. I'm not the engineer, I'm just drawing it out. It would put me in a better position in my career to move forward.

Jason:

Could you tell me about some of the educational opportunities that you had while you were in prison?

Beth:

There's not a lot. When I first got locked up, I went to Lowell, which is a reception center. Basically, all the women in North Central Florida, when they're going to prison, they go there first. It houses all the new people and then all the lifers, and then a lot of the medical issues. It has a huge population of elderly. Since most people are not meant to stay there, they don't really have a ton of educational programs. They had, I want to say, maybe four vocational programs that I was able to sign up for. I ended up staying at Lowell for about five years when I first got locked up. Typically, they want you to take one vocational class and then you're done, and a lot of times they don't want to put you in a vocational class if you still have a long time to go.

A lot of the lifers can't get into any vocational classes because the education department sees it as a waste. I was lucky, and I got into the fashion design and production class, which you learn how to use a sewing machine, how to read a pattern. But the reason I wanted to do that is because they have a garment factory there at Lowell. So if you graduate from that class, you can automatically go work at the garment factory, and that's one of the only paying jobs. I really wanted to do that, and that was my first educational course that they provided. It took years before I could get into another one because, like I said, I already had my one vocational class.

I wanted to do college classes, but there weren't a lot of places that offered it. I did find Ohio University, and it took me a while to even get signed up for those because it's expensive. My family didn't have a lot of money. I mean, they were barely sending me canteen money, so I definitely wasn't going to get college tuition money. I ended up getting sponsored by a friend of mine's church group, and they paid for my first class. I think they might have paid for my second class too, I don't even remember. But basically, I think it was maybe $400 or something like that. It's a course credit by examination, so you sign up for the class, they send you a little booklet and a book, and you work through it. I think I had maybe six months. And then at the end of the class, you coordinate with the education department and Ohio University, and they send you a test. They send it to the education department. You've got to schedule a meeting with them. You go and you sit down for a few hours while someone watches you take the test, and then you mail it in. And it takes about a month or two to get the grades.

It was nerve-wrecking. I did college algebra, intro to calculus one and two, and a humanities course while I was in there, over the course of several years. It was a lot. Especially because you're locked up, you can't have a calculator or anything. Ohio University did a great job. They have books and coursework specifically designed for that situation, so even though I was doing calculus, the way they had the problems set up, you didn't need the calculator. You could leave things in fraction form. So they really did a great job thinking about the requirements and what you wouldn't be able to have. They coordinated with the education department when needed. They did a great job, and I was really thankful for that. But they were one of the only schools that I could find that did something like that.

I did write to other ones, and a lot of times they would either not answer me or say that they don't have anything that would fit my needs. I mean, the course class or the Ohio University classes and the vocational classes are pretty much what was available. So that was at Lowell, which is a state-run prison. I did spend a couple of years in Gaston, which is up in Quincy near Tallahassee, and that is a privately-run prison. I know they have a really terrible reputation. People are like, "Oh, it's a for-profit prison." But because they were for profit, they were motivated to run more classes than other places.

Jason:

Really?

Beth:

They had really great classes up there. They utilized the inmates a lot as teachers, so they were able to offer more things than if they were using actual paid employees. We did Spanish classes up there. They had tons of craft classes. I mean, really that... I don't want to say, "Oh, it was a great prison, everybody should go," but I mean, the things that they offered were a lot. They had AutoCAD classes, which Lowell also had. I took AutoCAD in Lowell, but up in Gaston, I mean, they bought all brand new computers. They got brand new AutoCAD licenses. They spent a lot more money in their education classes. I don't know if that's all private prisons or just that one, but I feel like they offered a lot more. It was a more beneficial situation. But then again, too, they had a lot more short timers, whereas Lowell had all the lifers. So maybe that's why they didn't invest so much in their vocational, I don't know.

Jason:

So it sounds like you were pretty successful with those classes.

Beth:

I took every class they let me take. By the time I was released, I took fashion design and production, I took the architectural drafting and AutoCAD, I took HVAC. Up in Gaston, they tried to get us... Microsoft Office user specialists, so we didn't end up getting our certification, but they did let us work through the program. I was prepared to take the class in every single Microsoft Office program. I got a certification in teaching people to read through Literacy Volunteers of America or something like that. Every single thing they offered, I went to the Spanish classes, just whatever was available.

Jason:

What was the draw there for you? What was the incentive?

Beth:

Well, I was pretty young when I went to prison. I got locked up when I was 20. I turned 21 in the county jail. Before I got locked up, I wasn't really qualified for any decent jobs. I did a lot of telemarketing, which although it paid well, I was a 17-year-old making decent money for a 17-year-old, but I would never be able to get my own apartment, my own car and stuff like that with that kind of money. So I knew when I got out, if I wanted to go back to doing the exact same thing, I could just get out and look for the exact same job, but I was going to need something better.

I was locked up for 12 and a half years, and I spent almost the entire time, I got to say I raised a little hell in the first couple years because I was just like, "Ugh, I have so long, who cares?" But I spent almost the whole time trying to come up with a plan to not ever be in that situation again. I think I did pretty well. I've gotten out and pretty much hit all of my goals.

Jason:

How did all of that course work, how did that prepare you to be successful in college?

Beth:

I would say that especially those Ohio University classes, the confidence boost that it gave me knowing that I was capable of doing college level work, that made me feel a lot... Because before I got locked up, I did try to go to a community college in the area. I took the placement exam and everything, and I had scored pretty low in the math department, so I was going to have to take supplemental classes and everything. I spent a while going through GED books and Klap book and all that stuff trying to catch up on where I'd missed out. So the fact that I was able to pass those classes really boosted my confidence because I thought, "Well, maybe I'm just not as smart as I thought I was. Maybe I wouldn't even be able to succeed in college." When you're a little kid, people tell you like, "Oh yeah, you're going to go places," but they tell everybody that. So I mean, that's not really a good indication of how prepared you'll be for life. So it made me feel like I probably could swing it out there in the real world.

Jason:

No, that's great. So in terms of when you got out and made the decision to go to college, what kind of support did you have?

Beth:

I was in a pretty unique situation because when I was in prison, I had started going to Zen meditation classes at Lowell. They were run by a man named Casey Wapul. He had a meditation center here in Gainesville. He was for a while running a kind of... I don't want to say a halfway house, but maybe a transition house. So people who had been in prison, they would move in and he would help them get signed up for college and introduce them to people in the community. I got out and went there. My timing was not great though, because as soon as I got there, he decided to retire. It's where I met my partner. She was there too, and we ended up taking over the lease, and we stayed there after he retired and moved out.

Both of them helped me figure out what to do, because I was just so young when I got locked up, I really hadn't done much of anything. But Casey helped me. Especially with the Disciplinary Review Board, when you sign up for classes and you've been locked up, they request your arrest history or some kind of criminal arrest report or something like that, and I would've never been able to figure out what they wanted. But luckily, Casey knew like, "Oh, you've got to go to this site and you've got to download this or that." He drove me to the college and helped me get signed up, so I had a lot of support there.

And then Angie, that's my partner, she helped me, "Well, this is in this area of town and this is in this area." So they both helped me get acquainted with everything. I moved into the Zen Center, I want to say, a couple of weeks after I got out. I went up to Indiana and visited with family and everything first, and then I came here. They helped me a lot. I was really lucky because I would've never known what to do. In my ignorance, I didn't know what the letters after the semesters meant, so I just thought they were semesters that started at different dates. I didn't realize they were shortened. So when I got out, I signed up for three, I think it was Fall B or A, not knowing that that meant that they were accelerated classes. It was so horrible. It was absolutely horrible. I think they were all on the same day, and they were all three hours long or something stupid. I just ended up sitting there all day long thinking, "Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?"

I think that would've been nice if somebody would've explained to me when I signed up, "Hey, you do realize that these are not regular classes?"

Jason:

May not be the best way to start.

Beth:

Nobody mentioned that part. Everything else I got help with, but that one, I was completely on my own.

Jason:

So how did that end up going?

Beth:

I mean, I passed, but it was terrible. It was terrible.

Jason:

What was the most exciting thing for you about attending college?

Beth:

Finally getting something going. I'd spent so long in prison just stuck. I mean, obviously I was there, I did something wrong, I was being punished, but I mean, I was there for 12 and a half years. So after a while, it's like, "Okay, I'm ready to be good now, but here I am, just sitting here just watching the clock go by." I mean, every year of my 20s I was in prison, and I'm just sitting there waiting. When I finally got out, I just couldn't wait. It was just amazing to finally get moving. I think I got my degree about a year and a half later, because I just piled them on. I just wanted to get it out of the way and move on with my life. College was that first step where I just finally felt like finally something is happening. I was so tired of being stuck and just waiting. I spent so long waiting.

Jason:

Knowing what you know now, is there anything that you would've done differently to prepare for college while you were in prison?

Beth:

I certainly would've found out what Fall A and B means. I definitely would've looked more at the class schedule to understand really what I was signing up for. I don't know, I mean, prison really prepares you to sit still, so sitting in classes was no big deal. And those course credit by examinations, they taught me to balance my time because there's no teacher in those. You get your book, you get your paper, if you don't read it in the six months, that's on you. I really learned to stay on a schedule, make sure I'm moving forward at a certain rate, really be accountable to myself. That really helped me.

I'm not really sure what I could have done in prison differently. I mean, the thing with going to school is just making sure that you actually keep up with it. Because you could just put things off if you're tired, like, "Oh, I'll get it to the homework later." If you miss the bus, "Oh, I'll just skip class." You do have the opportunities to let your opportunities pass by. But I mean, guess in my situation I was just so relieved to finally have the opportunity to move that I wasn't going to let anything pass me by. I did every assignment. I read every chapter. I showed up for every class. I was really motivated to not fail. And maybe it's a little bit of fear too, because if I fail, there's always prison. Which is maybe not what everybody else has in the back of their head. Maybe they're thinking, "Oh, I'll get on unemployment," but prison to me is like, "Oh yeah, if you don't do everything you're supposed to do, there's always prison." I think just having that mindset when I got out that I'm going to make this work is what made it work. I don't know what else I could have done to prepare.

Jason:

Thanks. So we're going to talk just a little bit about the application process. We've talked a little bit about that. How long after you were released did you wait before you applied to college?

Beth:

It was almost immediately. I want to say maybe two weeks.

Jason:

Oh, wow.

Beth:

Yeah. Because that was part of the thing at the Zen Center, is you move in, you sign up for school. I spent a week two visiting with family, and then I came back to Gainesville and signed up immediately. I missed the regular semester, so I signed up for whatever was available next. I know probably not a month went by before I started school.

Jason:

How did you decide on Gainesville and Santa Fe and all of that?

Beth:

The Zen Center was here.

Jason:

Yeah, just that.

Beth:

I lived in Atlanta when I was a teenager, and I really liked it. But if I would've went there when I got out, I would've been completely on my own. It was nice having that transitional period where I was going somewhere where there were people that actually knew, "Okay, this is your next step. This is what you need to do." So it was an easier landing, I thought, to come here. Casey really sold Santa Fe. He loved you guys. He was always, "Oh, you should go to Santa Fe and do this." He really pushed Gainesville as a good place to start back out. I think he was right, I mean, it's worked out really well for me.

Jason:

Did you know anyone who was enrolled at the college when you came here?

Beth:

My partner, Angie, was taking classes too. And she was staying at the Zen Center, so she was familiar with the programs and everything and the campus. But she was the only one that I knew. I mean, really in all of Gainesville besides Casey.

Jason:

Oh, wow. Okay. So you talked a little bit about the Disciplinary Review Board. Can you talk a little bit about that process, what that was like for you at Santa Fe?

Beth:

Yeah. So that's actually the only school that's required me to do it. Like Daytona, maybe if I was going to go on campus, it would've been different, but they never mentioned anything about it. I guess in the very beginning I went up to the enrollment building and signed up for my classes. I don't remember how they told me I was going to have to go. I think maybe it was something that Casey had mentioned because he had been through it with other women that had gotten out. And so, as far as I knew, it was just some appointment that I needed to go. I was going to meet with some people here at the college, and I had to explain why I was in prison. I don't remember how it was explained. I mean, it's like 10 years ago, but it was just my impression that I was going to have to go and convince them that I had been rehabilitated or that I deserved to go to college.

It was a little upsetting, but I guess I was so freshly out of prison that I was thinking, "Oh, well, this seems just another thing in my life." But now that I've been out for a while, the more I've been out, the more upsetting it seems because, I mean, I'm out now, why is this even necessary? I knew Bill Stevenson back then too. I had met him through the Zen Center. He used to go there and meditate. So he had explained a little bit about me, so I guess I was a little prepared that I was going to go in this room and there was going to be maybe six or seven people. I don't remember if they told me that there was a possibility they would deny me. I went in thinking, "Well, surely, they're going to let me go to college." But I guess there probably was this feeling in the back of my mind like, "If I don't seem sorry enough, I'm not going to get to go to college. If they don't like me enough, I'm not going to get to go to college."

But I had to go online, and I guess you go to some website, maybe the sheriff's department that has your arrest history, and I had to print out this document and submit it to maybe sure that I wasn't a danger. I mean, it wasn't really explained to me. I'm just guessing why they might have wanted it. But I guess the whole thing was maybe to evaluate whether or not I'd cause a problem at the school. But there was an undertone like maybe they wouldn't like me if I wasn't sorry enough or something. I feel like somebody had even... I don't remember how it worked out, if maybe somebody had told me about their experience, but it just was judgey. I don't know how else to put it. It's just like you're going to a panel of strangers who aren't in the corrections field that don't know you from Adam, and they're just judging whether or not you're worthy.

I don't know any of those people. Maybe that's not what they were thinking, but...

Jason:

That's how it felt at the time.

Beth:

Oh yeah, for sure, for sure. So luckily I was eligible for Pell Grants, so that covered pretty much everything. But as we all know, Pell Grants don't really cover living costs. I mean, they give you a little bit of money when it drops, if there's stuff left over after your books and stuff, but I did have to work the entire time. I took one semester and tried to work, but that was a disaster. I was just constantly stressed about money. So almost the entire time I've been going to school, I worked part-time... I mean, I go to school part-time and I work full-time because there's just no way to live off of... I mean, I could have taken loans, but those freak me out. All you hear in the news is, "Student loan crisis this, and looming debt for new graduates." And I just didn't want to be a part of that.

I have zero student loans, and I have zero student debt.

Jason:

That's phenomenal.

Beth:

And it's such a relief because I see so many people, they're like, "Oh, well I took out a loan every semester and now I'm $100,000 in debt." That was terrifying to me. So I have taken one or two classes almost the entire time. Pell Grants paid for it through my African Agenda, but once I graduated with my AA, I had been making a little bit more money each year and I no longer qualified for that.

So then I was paying cash, which was terrible. And then I got a job that had tuition reimbursement, so that was really great. But then I left that job before the vesting period, then I had to pay it all back. So it's been kind of hit or miss. I've had financial help with school part of the time, and part of the time not. But knowing that the cost of college is so high has kept me going very slowly. I mean, I'm moving at a snail... Right now I'm taking one class, so it's taking me forever, but I don't owe anything. So it relieves me from a lot of anxiety because I tend to-

Jason:

Sure.

Beth:

I tend towards the anxious.

Jason:

What's your timetable? When do you think you will be done with your bachelor's?

Beth:

I think I looked at my little schedule and I think maybe after the spring of 2026. I mean, I only have six classes I think. But I mean, that's six semesters from now. But as long as I don't have to withdraw. I did take statics last fall and had to withdraw, which is part of why I got pushed back so far because I only offer it once a year. So as long as I don't have to withdraw from statics again, we're looking at 2026.

Jason:

You're comfortable with that pace?

Beth:

Yeah, I mean, I'm to a point now in my career that I'm making enough money to live, so I'm not as worried about it. Before I was going to school because I was so scared if I didn't get a really good job, I would not be able to take care of myself. My whole purpose since I've gotten out is just make sure I make enough money that I can go to the doctor, that I can have a place to live, I can eat every day. Just stupid things. It's terrified me that if I don't keep moving at the same pace that I won't be able to take care of myself. That is my absolute number one fear, because before I got locked up, I couldn't take care of myself. I was constantly living with friends, sleeping on couches. I was not self-sufficient, and I absolutely did not want to be in a situation again where I had asked someone for help.

It sounds terrible, but my whole path to where I'm at right now has been fueled by terror that at some point I'm going to be sleeping on a couch or I'm going to go back to prison, or who knows. My number one motivation is staying independent.

Jason:

I don't think you're alone in that.

Beth:

I thought I was really putting myself in a good position by getting all those certificates. I think I mentioned I got maybe four certificates. And HVAC, I thought that one for sure. I've got an HVAC certificate here in Florida, everybody's got ACs, I've got it made. Nobody would hire me. Nobody was the least bit interested in my certificates of any sort. Every single time I would go and talk to a company about a position that they had available, I'd tell them, "Hey, I've got the certificate, HVAC, I've been through all the courses, I just need some hands-on experience." They'd want to talk to me about what prison was like, and then they would tell me, "No, we don't actually have anything available."

And even here at Santa Fe, and I don't want to talk bad about Santa Fe because it was a good experience, but they have, what do they call it, an apprenticeship program, and HVAC is one of them. So I thought, "Well, okay, well, maybe my certificate from prison isn't that useful, but maybe I could use it as a stepping stone into this better program." But one of the things that it requires is you have to be hired by somebody that's going to sponsor you for your apprenticeship, and nobody was interested in hiring me for the apprenticeship either. Nobody cared about that certificate at all.

I spent... I don't remember, maybe an eight-month program. And then even when you graduate, you go and you work on the maintenance squad there in the prison. So you're actually doing HVAC work, but nobody cared. That was really the only one that I thought was going to be any use. I did try for some AutoCAD jobs, which again, nobody cared about my certificate. And that was a year and a half program. And I worked as a teacher's aide for another couple of years, so I had a ton of experience in AutoCAD, but nobody cared.

I don't know if it's maybe the certificate wasn't valuable or just some places just have a thing where they don't hire felons. Even the job I have now, I wasn't sure I was going to get it. They even told me, "Don't give your old job notice yet because we don't know if we're going to be able to hire you." I think, again like the college classes, they gave me confidence that I would be capable, but it turned out to not really be that useful. Nobody has ever given a damn about the certificates. I don't want to say they didn't help me at all, but they were not as useful as I'd hoped they would be. It certainly did not equal getting out and just getting a job in HVAC when I got out.

Jason:

Were you given that impression that they would have that kind of use?

Beth:

I did. I really did. I don't know if maybe I built it up in my own head, but I mean, I just thought, "Well, a vocational certificate in this useful skill, surely that's a door opener," but it's not. It's just not. It doesn't mean anything. But it could be because I'm a woman too. Maybe if a guy had the same certificate, maybe they would've been more open to it. I don't know what happened. I can't say what's going on in other people's heads, but I know that none of my certificates equal to a job.

Jason:

Okay. So when you first came to campus, what do you remember about your first day on campus?

Beth:

I'm trying to think of my first day on campus. Honestly, I was just really excited. I really like the way that Santa Fe's campus is set up, all the park area, the grassy area, and I loved the library. I still love the library. I stopped there on the way here. I just remember thinking, "This is going to be the beginning of something good."

Jason:

When you started attending classes, how open had you decided to be about your prison experience?

Beth:

I think I was a little nervous about sharing it at first. I think the whole time I was here at Santa Fe I might've only let a couple of teachers know. I don't think it ever really came up. I didn't really socialize with my classmates that much. There was a big age gap in most situations, so that was kind of holding me back. I just didn't want to... Let's see, I was in my 30s and a lot of the kids were just getting out of high school and stuff, so I just didn't really feel like we had that much in common. So I didn't reach out like, "Hey, guys, you want to hang out?" It just didn't seem like a thing. I don't think I shared with many of my classmates at all, and maybe just a couple of my teachers. And not really because I didn't feel comfortable sharing because they were all really nice. I had great experiences with my teachers here at Santa Fe. I think that if it would've come up, they wouldn't have been very judgmental about it, but it just never really came up.

Jason:

Were there any instructors in particular that stick out in your head?

Beth:

I really liked them all. I know that sounds silly, but I mean, I really enjoyed all of my classes. It's been several years, so I don't remember them all by name, but I can't think of any class that I went to here at Santa Fe and I was like, "Ugh, God, I got this person again." They were all really great teachers. I don't want to say that my new school is not good, and maybe it's because it's online so you don't get that same understanding of each other, but I would say it was a far superior experience. I do like my new school, I don't want to say my teachers are bad, but I really liked Santa Fe. I would've really liked to have been able to keep going through Santa Fe for my degree, but it's just not something that they offer.

Jason:

Did you have any experiences while you were here that made you feel like you didn't necessarily belong here?

Beth:

Other than the Disciplinary Board, that certainly felt like I was being singled out. I mean, I understand, what if I was an ax murderer or something. I do get the idea behind it. I don't really see the use of it. In my head, I know, hey, as a school, they need to do something to ensure that someone doesn't get ax-murdered and then every parent in the school is like, "Hey, why did my kid get ax-murdered? Weren't you paying attention?" Especially since I found out more about it, and I realize that it's even for people who... It doesn't even have to be in prison. They were just gathering up everybody and questioning them. It just seems like, "What are you doing? What is the point of this other than to make someone feel bad?"

Because if you're going to let almost everybody in anyway, I mean, are you just being nosy? You just want to know about what they did? I don't know. The Disciplinary Review Board is part of the reason I didn't immediately apply for UF when I graduated. I filled out the application online for UF, and they have a question that says, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony?" I was like, "Ugh, I'm not doing this again." Because if they were like that at Santa Fe, I can't even imagine what these rich people at UF are going to do. I just didn't go. I never even applied. I started the application, got to the felony part, and quit. I mean, maybe I could have kept going, but I was absolutely 100% against going to another Disciplinary Review Board, especially at UF.

And it was several years in, so then I had really gotten to the point... When I first got out, I was like, "Oh, okay, this is another thing I have to submit to." But after I've been out for a few years I'm like, "No, there's no reason to submit to anything. I'm over that. I'm not doing it. I did my time, I'm out. If I'm not in trouble right now, leave me alone."

Jason:

II want to thank Beth for coming in to talk with us. We'll hear more of her story in part two where she'll not only continue to share her experiences, but she will also share her hopes for the future. Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities. This episode was produced by Anne Thebaut and Lex Shelton. Thanks for listening.