Learning to Make a Difference Part 2

We’re continuing our conversation with Adrian Price. Adrian’s progress in higher education has been the result of a combination of determination, optimism, and luck. His story underlines the role that entire communities play when it comes to supporting students with carceral experience.

Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities.

Full transcripts can be found under each episode at https://freetolearn.buzzsprout.com/. 

Transcript

Jason:

Welcome to Free to Learn, a podcast exploring the stories of formerly incarcerated college students. My name is Jason Frank, I'm an instructional designer at Santa Fe College, and I am interested in better understanding how we can create a learning environment that better meets the needs of these students.

The first step to good design is listening to the people you're working to support. We're continuing our conversation with Adrian Price. If you haven't listened to part one of this interview, I would recommend going back and listening to that first. Adrian's progress in higher education has been the result of a combination of determinism, optimism, and luck. His story underlines the role that entire communities play when it comes to supporting students with carceral experience. Let's get back to the interview.

So when you had started, when you were on campus and classes were started, did you have any experiences where you didn't feel like you belonged?

Adrian:

What I didn't feel, probably the age range. Me being being maybe what, 37 at the time maybe, or 36. The age gap. I guess that's the major divide. But like I said, I love people. I love culture, energetic, so even the age gap isn't a problem. I have to tell them like, "Hey, I'm 37." They're like, "What? I thought you was like 29." How could you look in my face and even come up with that number?

So yes. So I think that was the major challenge with that. I think in general, Santa Fe is a very communal place, very accepting place, and I think even the students, especially the staff, they haven't made me feel any type of way outside of normal. So I can speak for Santa Fe and say that.

Jason:

Do you have any place on campus that you like to go to? Just to study, to prepare, just to reflect?

Adrian:

Well, probably any place in the sun around this time of the year. But on campus, I just, being on campus is rejuvenating, I guess you can say. But a specific spot, I wouldn't say spot, I would say people. So I'm like that anyway. I like being around people, so it doesn't matter where the person is at. So you might see me talking to Lex. You might see me pop up on Professor Ann, so you might see me. Professor Tunga, I need to pop up on him. Another day. Shout out to the STEM program. I like to pop up over there, too. So just any place, MBK, any place where there's a good spirit, there's a good vibe I tend to ...

Jason:

Sounds like there are a lot of places around where you can get that vibe.

Adrian:

Yes.

Jason:

That's great.

Adrian:

Yes. Yeah.

Jason:

Okay. And again, having gone to college, having taken some courses, and is there anything that you wish you knew before you had begun?

Adrian:

Before I began? I guess it's something that has to be experienced, but just navigating the calendar on campus.

Jason:

Oh, sure.

Adrian:

Knowing when things are due. I didn't know that I'd struggle with that for a while, knowing when things were due. Because my math class, it was so easy. I could go on there and I could complete the tasks, complete the assignments, and it was just, I forgot the name of the program that they use in the math classes. But it's so easy. And that's my favorite program to use to this day because it's just like, it's back to back. You just do it, you knock it out.

But other classes, you have to look more in Canvas and more at your calendar to see things that are due, because that kind of hurt me a lot. Not knowing when things were due, turning some things in late, having to rush. But I think it was nothing but fortune, once again, with me selecting some courses my first semester that weren't too hard. All of them seemed so easy. And then the second semester seemed like the Terminator had came back, but I was able to navigate through it and do well.

Jason:

Okay. So yeah, the Canvas navigation, figuring out when things were due, that was-

Adrian:

Yes.

Jason:

Okay. So you got involved with the Justice Club, right? How soon after you started going to classes did you get involved with that?

Adrian:

Well, Prince, again. Prince, the King Maker. I was just focused on school, getting my classes done, transitioning. How long are these classes going to take to study for? This seems to be easy. I'm doing this pretty well. I wasn't even thinking about grades. I was just thinking about just passing, to tell you the truth. And then Prince came and say, "Hey, I need you to be the senator of the Justice Club." I'm like, "Senator of the Justice Club?" I don't even know what the senator is, let alone, I just thought I was just going to be in the Justice Club maybe because before I actually attended College, Prince, he influenced me. He heard my story, he influenced me to create a nonprofit organization, which I did, called Voices for Hope, which was predicated on eradicating the social stigma of formerly incarcerated individuals.

It didn't last long to due to my limited resources. And on account of that organization, I spoke here at campus through Justice Club. So I was familiar with it. So I was definitely going to be a participant or supporter, but he made me be the senator where I had to show up to the weekly senate meetings and be a representative of a club that I'm just knowing about. So Prince, he pushed me in that position, and like I said before, he sees the potential in people and he just shifts them. So he pushed me to the Justice Club.

Jason:

So tell me, what's the mission of the Justice Club? What's the purpose?

Adrian:

Well, the Justice Club up under my leadership now, I've took it in the direction, which I believe it always has been, of it's producing or inducing the know-how, the skill to be able to express yourself politically. Because I always explain it like this; justice is fluid. It's forever changing. It's nothing concrete, it's not the truth. It's what we perceive as what's morally good or bad. So with that being said, if it's only 12 people giving their perspective of justice, then the rest who are not included in the conversation will be left in injustice maybe. Not even intentionally. It's just the nature of the beast. So it's important for each and every one of us to be able to express ourselves politically. And that could be on our jobs, if we are being mishandled on our jobs.

And it's not all about being mishandled either, like being the victim. It's about creating a vibe, an attitude, a community where it will service as many individuals as possible. So we must know how to express ourselves politically, especially when it comes to legislature, because a lot of times, a lot of conversations get brought up, a lot of arguments, a lot of protests get brought up. And then once people recognize that, "Hey, this is a problem." If you don't handle it, if you don't know how to approach it legislatively, then nothing's going to happen. So I think that's what the Justice Club does. It produces those type of individuals.

Jason:

So what skills do you think you've learned as you've served in this club?

Adrian:

Well, I learned how to build representative, obviously, being a senator. I learned more leadership abilities, knowing how to lead, knowing how to harness my visions, and knowing how to influence other people. Knowing how to employ other people, knowing how to produce diligence in other people because a lot of times people, they want to do something, but they're not pushed to do something. How Prince pushed me, I learned from that. Push other people. So yeah, I learned a lot of things.

Jason:

So have you been involved in any other clubs or is really just been ...

Adrian:

It's just been Justice Club due to time restraints, having to work and do school. So that was pretty much it.

Jason:

Have you attended any sporting events or any other college activities?

Adrian:

I haven't really had opportunity to experience it. School definitely takes a lot, being full-time or having been full-time and having to work as a student. I think that's a major burden, especially being older in age. You don't have mom and daddy to support you. And not saying that when you're younger. So a lot of students don't have, especially on this level at the community college. So the restraints of having to work doesn't leave time for that much to do leisurely, especially if you already have friends outside of college, family outside of college, you can't really engulf yourself in the activities in college if you don't have time. Yeah.

Jason:

So I noticed you're wearing your Justice Club t-shirt today. Do you have any other Santa Fe shirts or bumper stickers or anything like that?

Adrian:

I thought about, I really want to buy one of the sweaters maybe, or maybe even the joggers. But I guess I have to save up or use my credit card. I haven't been motivated to purchase it yet, but I definitely look at it all the time in the store and I want to purchase it.

Jason:

So how important is it for you to let other people know that you're here?

Adrian:

I think it's very important. And like I said, if I don't, I'll be robbing the community of it. A lot of people need to know. It's a sector. It's not many of us when it comes to formerly incarcerated. So the average individual, the average leader, the average law is not going to represent us too well because remember, it goes back to those voices in the room. So if I'm the only voice that can be displayed here at Santa Fe, which is a prominent institution in the community and in the state and in the nation. So if I can magnify my voice here, maybe this institution can magnify it even more abroad.

Jason:

So what kind of services at Santa Fe have been most helpful to you?

Adrian:

I would say the Justice Club.

Jason:

Okay. Yeah.

Adrian:

Because what the Justice Club has done for me is it has given me more hope in my dream. My dream of becoming a radiologist, a tech, and which is a small dream compared to what I could become. But I'm taking this small step because even this small step isn't solidified with the legislature in place prohibiting me from being able to obtain the occupational licensure to practice. So I'm hanging on the limb even at this moment.

But the Justice Club has given me hope. The Justice Club has allowed me to harness the power of Santa Fe through clubs. Because me being a representative of Santa Fe, Santa Fe representing me, Santa Fe, representing the Justice Club through Santa Fe, I can leverage the power of Santa Fe. I can leverage the power of the city of Gainesville, and hopefully I could be able to leverage the power of the University of Florida to help me personally, and also other people. So definitely this club has allowed for me to do that.

Jason:

So are there any services that you wish Santa Fe offered that have helped you through your college experience so far?

Adrian:

Well, a service that was more familiar with who I am. A service that was more versed in how to handle my situation. A service that was just passionate about just me being able to obtain my licensure as much as I am. So a service that's just familiar with just my whole coming forth, that can stand shoulder to shoulder with me and help me fight this battle. Because I could have a 3.95 GPA. The only reason, reason I don't have that is because I got a B in public speaking. That's a shocker, right? But the class, once again, and the deadlines, it was ...

Anyway. So I can do all this and be a part of the Honor Society. I can be so great of a student, president of the Justice Club, but black and white says it doesn't matter. So somebody that had enough power or a service that had enough power to overthrow that and help me out. So that's the only service. Other than that, Santa Fe has been great to me.

Jason:

Okay. Thank you. Adrian, what kind of student would you describe yourself as?

Adrian:

Ah. I remember in the anatomy class, anatomy two class, the professor, she asked us to introduce ourselves to the class and name one thing about us that it felt like people should know. And I told them, "Well, I'm like a transformer. It's more than me that meets the eye." So as a student, I think I'm a shocker. My professors are shocked every single class at my performance. And it's nothing to say against them, but me being a older Black male, they're probably looking at it like, this is not a normal scene, first off.

So I may come in, this guy may struggle being older, probably coming back to school, he may struggle. But every time when they see the results, they're like in shock. And I love that feeling because it's associated with everything I'm coming from, being a shocker. So I would say me as a student, I'm not the norm, and I know that, and I'm harnessing it and I'm using it. Yeah.

Jason:

So what do you find most challenging about just schoolwork?

Adrian:

Most challenging? Balancing the work. Having to work and do your work, pretty much. Yeah. So just having to do the classwork and work at the same time. I think that's the major balance. I think students who don't have to, it's better, does better in classes. I think that probably makes up a majority of your probably A students. It's those who don't have to work as much. So I think that's the major challenge, balancing regular work with schoolwork.

Jason:

That is a challenge. So were all of your classes or did you take any online classes?

Adrian:

I took one hybrid class, which was face-to-face and online. So this semester is my only online. Other ones has been face-to-face, all of them. Yeah.

Jason:

Okay. How are you finding the ... Well, you're just starting, so you don't really ... Yeah.

Adrian:

The online one?

Jason:

Yeah. I'll be curious to hear how your online class goes.

Adrian:

Right now I'm lost already. On the online I had to look at this video, and it's a kind of crazy class. It's not a normal class. It's a computer class. So I'm just trying to figure out a program once again that I'm not familiar with. And the reason why I took the class, I would rather be in face any day. But the reason I took it online is because I want to be able to try to work full-time for at least a semester before I hopefully start the program. Yeah.

Jason:

Okay. So just giving you a little more flexibility. You want to still be involved, but you want that flexibility. Absolutely. What do you think has been your most valuable study habit?

Adrian:

My most valuable study habit? Following the professor's prompts. I look at it like this. I would tell any student, if the professor is a professor, they should be kind of smart. Maybe not the sharpest knife, but they're kind of at the top if they're trying to teach us something in college. And you have to understand that each professor, they want the student to succeed. That reflects on them. So they're going to have little treats in there in their prompts.

So I would advise them to follow the prompts, follow the study habits, follow the guidance of the professor that's inside of the syllabus or inside of the curriculum. If you follow that, you'll be successful. They're telling you how to complete their class because they want you to complete their class. So I think even asking the professor, "This is your class, how can I be successful in it?" So I think definitely that's the greatest study habit, studying the professors.

Jason:

That is good advice. Have you used any of the tutoring services that the college offers?

Adrian:

I've used I wouldn't say tutoring per se, but I've used the STEM program. I've used the library. So not necessarily tutoring. I do really well in the comprehension department when it comes to just reading something. If I can see it, I can understand it. I can understand it better if I see it than words. So yeah, I'm a very visual guy, so a tutor, they can talk all day, but I'd rather see it. Could you write that down for me, please?

Jason:

Yeah. How's the STEM? How has the STEM program helped you?

Adrian:

Well, the STEM program, I think it helps when it comes to support, because the last spring 2021 semester, I had fell ill. I was in the hospital for the first six days of the semester. And I had onslaught of classes like I spoke of before with anatomy. And anatomy, I want to try to remember the other classes. Humanities, which I thought was supposed to be an easy class, but it was a class that had about four assignments per week and a weekly writing attached to that. American government. So I had a onslaught of classes that I had to do. So I missed the first six days and I was thinking about quitting. I was like, "Man, I need to drop a class. This is not going to work because I want to get all As and this is not going to work. I just can't see myself doing this."

So they just supported me, helped me understand that, "Hey, there's a point where you can drop a class and it won't affect you." Just letting me know how the process was and just easing my mind when it comes to the pressure on that end. So eventually I toughed it out, many days of no leisure activity, not even gaming. I couldn't even game, couldn't get on Fortnite and detox. I had to go home and detox off of humanities. So that was my days. Literally, I was trying to catch up for weeks until the spring break. So yeah, they was very supportive.

Jason:

So far, what classes have you enjoyed the most?

Adrian:

Anatomy was bitter and sweet. Bitter because I had to do it. I had to study, had to put in eight hours for each exam at least. But it was sweet to know the information at the end. So, anatomy was a pretty exciting class. And like I said, so I think anatomy. Anything in the science department. Humanities, the one I spoke of, which was demanding. But humanities is a great subject to me because like I said, I love people and I love culture. And that just gave me a broader perspective of humanities. I didn't even know what humanities was, didn't even know. But as I was going through the course, I began to see things like humanities being in the food, into art, and just recognizing that art is an expression of humanity. So I think that was the biggest thing with me was humanities and anatomy.

Jason:

So in your humanities class, was there any art or literature, anything that just you felt like it really spoke to you?

Adrian:

One was Ugly Delicious. It's a series on Netflix and it's called Ugly Delicious, and I forgot which episode, but it was the episode on fried chicken. So it talked about the humanities behind fried chicken. So I learned a couple things in that episode. One thing I learned is that Asians love fried chicken just as much as we do. That's surprising. I think it was Japan or China, either one. I mean, they love fried chicken. KFC. They have their own type of KFC that rivals it. And I just was surprised with that. And just learning just how fried chicken had cultural ties here in America. It was kind of telling. I recommend that episode for anybody to watch it. But Ugly Delicious fried chicken was a piece of video art, film art that I would recommend.

Jason:

When I lived overseas, I lived in the Middle East for a few years. They love American fried chicken. I was in a food court once and there were four. There was a KFC and there was a Church's, and there was a Popeye's all in one. All in this one little food court. It's like, "Oh wow." It's something.

What kind of qualities do you look for in an instructor or professor?

Adrian:

I would say I would definitely want the professor to look back when they were a student and not assign so many classes. I meant so many assignments to recognize that, "Hey, maybe my class is the only class that this student is taking." I'm just being funny. But I definitely like that quality of the professor understanding from the student's perspective, because ultimately, the student is the one benefiting from the class. So I think that I love that sense inside the instructor or professor. Also, I like Tunga. I think that was my best professor was Tunga in sociology. I didn't mention that subject. I forgot about that one.

Jason:

Okay. So what was it about him?

Adrian:

Well, I was impressed with his knowledge on the subject. Obviously he has a PhD in psychology. But I didn't have to use the course book until maybe the last exam because he would get up there every day and he had an outline that he used, and he talked on every subject in the outline. We didn't have to read the books. He just got on there every day. All you had to do was sit in there and listen to him just talk about each subject. He's just looking at his outline and he's talking thoroughly on every subject.

So I was impressed with his knowledge, and it made the class easier because he knew it already so he could answer questions. And so he was the best professor I had. And it wasn't just easy, it was informative because the questions that you asked, he was able to answer them. And sociology is definitely a subject I would recommend to anybody.

Jason:

So besides the career that you're pursuing, what are some other personal goals that you have that you'd like to accomplish after college?

Adrian:

Well, I think just first off, starting a family. That is a major goal. Because it's starting. I got incarcerated when I was 21 until the age of 33. So if you do 38 minus 33, so I'm looking at about 26. That's kind of how I perceive myself in the stage in life I'm in, unfortunately. So starting a family is a big deal after college, after being solidified. And at this moment, I don't know because I'm walking on these eggshells. I don't know if this is going to set me back three years, as far as pursuing something that I can't obtain. So that is just, obtaining the degree or the occupational license would be a huge step and a huge piece of sweat wiped off my brow.

But other things is I have some things going on in the community that I'm currently working on. It's Engage and Nurture Project.

Jason:

Tell me about that. What is that?

Adrian:

So Engage and Nurture project is ... I say engage and nurture. So it sounds like kind of aggressive, but kind of soft. So Engage and Nurture is predicated on engaging individuals like me, or maybe individuals that are displaying antisocial behaviors at very young ages, and then nurturing them, which is providing resources for them to thrive. When you look at statistics, just say in the minority communities. I asked the guy when I was speaking for a Justice Club in the MBK, My Brother's Keeper program here at Santa Fe, which is a program for Black men enhancement and college and support.

When I was speaking to them, I asked them, I was like, "What's the success rate of a young Black male in America?" And one guy looked it up. I don't know what source he used, but he yelled out a number that was 26%. And so I looked at all of them and they're being young Black men. I said, "So that means that one out four are you are going to be successful, or are you that one out of four that's going to be successful?" So when you look at things like that, Engage and Nurture project wants to engage them and nurture them, and how could you do that?

Gainesville is a good place. It's a place with a lot of resources and a lot of people that are deprived of those resources. So Engage and Nurture project, I want to be a funnel to funnel resources like the University of Florida, and funnel it down to communities like Duval Community, because it's all about exposure. People are like sponges. Whatever they are exposed to, that's what is going to be in them. So Engage and Nurture Project is all about giving those who lack good exposure or great exposure, just being a avenue for that man, and then in building young individuals to be successful. Yeah.

Jason:

That's fantastic. Last year, last summer, you had an opportunity to go to California with some professors, this is a group that was led by Anne Thebaut, to attend a symposium on Project Rebound, which is a program out in California to help formally incarcerated students. Can you tell me a little bit about that experience and what you learned?

Adrian:

Well, being formally incarcerated, this was supposed to be like, "Oh, another rodeo. Just taking a trip out in Cali, right?" But when I got there, I was impressed. I was impressed with the program being established ever since 1968. Project Rebound, pretty much a program for formerly incarcerated students. And hearing the stories of individuals who are now employed by that same project, I guess you could say, and representatives of it. And hearing their experience of incarceration and how Cal State, by means of this program, influenced them while they were in prison, and especially out of prison with some of them obtaining like Master degrees, like graduate degrees, which is not happening a lot here in Florida. That, I don't think I can think of one person that I know that has a graduate degree from Florida, specifically, that was formerly incarcerated. But I met a lot of people over there that had, through that program.

So it just, let me see the advocacy part of that program, the influence of that program on the state and on the individuals that are formerly incarcerated. So it was a great experience. It let me see, it made me think, "Is California that far ahead of Florida? They've been doing this since 1968. They're very progressive." And some people probably not like me for that, but that's not the full perspective. Just on that subject.

Jason:

Just on that subject.

Adrian:

Just on that subject. So when I seen that, it was surprising to know that something that I'm experiencing, something that I'm like, "This is a great idea as far as innovation, that this has been happening ever since 1968 in California." Why didn't I go to prison in California?

So it was great. It was great. It was great. And that is a great program. Kudos to that program. And I even asked, I was like, "How could we get that program here to Florida?" I asked them, "Are y'all interested in extending that program to one of the universities here in Florida?" I even asked them that. So it was a great experience. And to say the least, I don't think it's enough time for me to run through those experiences. So I just sum it up with saying, as I've said it about three or four times, it was a great experience.

Jason:

So after having done that, do you ever see yourself doing graduate school?

Adrian:

With my age, I was like, nah, I just want to do two years and then try to do some form of ... Create some type of passive income to supplement for any other thing I want outside of that budget that I'm going to get. So that's pretty much because of my age. And also looking in the future, yeah, I may have considered it just say 33, getting out. I may have considered like, okay, I'm going to dedicate seven to eight years to become a pharmacist. But it was the law that kind of discouraged me. Even now, why would I want to dedicate all those years to nothing?

Jason:

It's a lot of risk.

Adrian:

Yes, a lot of risk. A great reward, but a lot of risk. Then what do I do in debt for school with no way to practice? What do I do with that? So yeah, it's I don't want to say out of my league at this point, but I didn't think that far ahead. Yeah.

Jason:

I understand. Is there anything else you would like to talk about? Anything else you'd like to share? Anything you'd like people to know coming out of this?

Adrian:

Well, to the ones who are incarcerated now, me just being released, I guess you can say, in 2018, June 2018. For years, I just thought about going to college, preparing. It's 11 and a half years. A lot of time to prepare, a lot of time to think about what I want to do when I get out. I always tell this to add comedy to this podcast, always tell this to people. When I had dreams, actual dreams of me getting out on that day, the most important thing I was thinking about was what I'm going to eat.

The whole dream was me thinking about what I'm going to eat. What am I going to eat? And it always probably be my favorite food or something like that. Because obviously the menu in there is very ... I don't think it has any stars, right? Yeah, zero stars on Google Review. But outside of finding out what I wanted to eat, on that first day, it was goals like going to school. And I remember looking in what they call Chapter 33, which is the law or the legislature on the rules of prison, pretty much. I looked in there that those with a certain custody level at about two years, unless when they were in work release [inaudible 00:39:29], they could go to what they call, I think work study or something like that, where you could actually be incarcerated and attend college. That is in the law in Chapter 33.

But it's not being used. There's no avenue to use it. It's just there. But the fact that it's there, that it can do something about it. So to those, like I say, speaking to those who are incarcerated, I want to be able to activate that part of Chapter 33, because I understand definitely how it feels to want to do something that you can't for so long, and to be crippled because you have no power to change this, no matter how great your passion is. But the people outside can. So I will dedicate myself to being one of those people. So yeah.

Jason:

Thank you. Thank you for sharing this. This has been just, I think, a great conversation, great discussion, and I think it's going to really help people to understand. And it's going to help some people, I think, feel a little less alone.

Adrian:

Yeah.

Jason:

Again, I want to thank Adrian for coming in to talk with us and for sharing his insights on what made his success possible. Funding for this program was provided through a grant from Florida Humanities with funds from the National Endowment for the Humanities. Any views, findings, conclusions or recommendations expressed in this program do not necessarily represent those of the Florida Humanities or the National Endowment for the Humanities. This episode was produced by Ann Thebaut and Lex Shelton. Thank you for listening.